Interview w/John Kelly

John Kelly: This is John Kelly, and I'm headed down for a little run on the Boone Greenway, a beautiful little river valley that cuts through the middle of town. It's got bike paths, baseball fields, rec fields for App State University, and some good trails. It follows right along the New River. During Hurricane Helene last year, it flooded to unprecedented levels and washed through this entire valley. Fortunately, this spot was just trails and open fields. It's a great place to run—peaceful, a good route, and I still have cell service.

Jamie: Why did you start running in the first place?

John Kelly: When I was a kid, I lived on a farm, and it allowed me to explore the fields and the mountains. Later on, I did it largely because my older brother ran. I took about ten years off and then came back to it because I wanted to see what I could do in a marathon and see if I could qualify for Boston.

Jamie: I'm a father of two myself, and I see that with my own kids—my daughter just wants to do what her brother is doing. I know a lot has been documented about your data science and analytical background. In your own words, how has that skill set helped you in ultra running? Is it a preparation piece, or a real-time/post-piece analysis?

John Kelly: It’s really everything. Originally it was training, but I’ve turned that over to my coach, David Roach, now. That gives me the bandwidth to focus on preparing for long, multi-day things where there is a lot of complexity, variables, and logistics. I plan for what I’m going to do if and when things go wrong so that I’m not wasting time trying to figure things out with a sleep-deprived, fatigued mind. There is also post-event analysis to figure out what I can do better. It’s a mindset of breaking things down into small, manageable components. It's a puzzle to be solved, the same as a math or science challenge.

Jamie: Is there enough of that in ultra coaching right now, or is that something specifically you bring?  What is the future of running? Is it longer races, faster races, or more adventurism?

John Kelly: I think things become more important the longer they get. There's a spectrum from pure running to a blend of running and race management. Regarding the future, I think everything’s going to continue to get faster across the board. We are seeing more popularity in multi-day events longer than 100 miles, but I don’t think things will keep getting longer indefinitely. For most people, it's hard to take more than a few days off from life. There will always be outliers who do creative "custom projects" that combine disciplines, but those will remain niche.

Jamie: You’ve done a number of races in Great Britain. What’s your connection there and what is challenging about the terrain?

John Kelly: I moved there in 2019 to start a company. We were there for about three and a half to four years. The terrain and conditions were definitely things I was not used to, and it made me better at those specific challenges. The community there was incredible. I learned a lot about supported efforts, like the Bob Graham Round. Prior to the UK, I was much more into self-supported and unsupported styles.

Jamie: To complete the Barkley Marathons three times makes you an outlier. Can you self-identify some of the reasons that underpin your success in that event?

John Kelly: I grew up across the street from the park. I looked out my childhood bedroom window at Chimney Top, the final mountain you climb on each loop. Comfort with the terrain is a big factor. In trail running, we have "home field advantage" because of the actual differences in the terrain and course. I had muscle memory for Barkley from a very young age. I also had the motivation of being the "local boy" wanting to make the community proud.

Jamie: I work in an innovation and AI department for a school board. How do you think AI is going to change the running world?

John Kelly: I think it can help a lot of people if they use it right, but it can be dangerous because it can confidently tell you things that are wrong. It can help new people get started with basic training plans or race strategies. We'll see where things are in five years regarding custom training plans and daily feedback.

Jamie: Fill in the blank: The future of the sport is going to be driven by ______.

John Kelly: I hope it’s adventure and passion. A half marathon is the longest "reasonable" distance to run; beyond that, it's about passion, exploring, and taking on big challenges. I look at these things as a laboratory where I can experiment on myself. It causes learning and growth that prepares us for when life brings actual adversity. When Helene hit last year, I applied lessons learned from running to keep a level head.

Jamie: What’s your "running scared" moment? Have you confronted real fear?

John Kelly: I can give you competitive fear and actual fear. During the Spine Race in 2020, I saw a light gaining on me during the final 26-mile stretch. I was going all out, absolutely shattered, and I finally stopped to accept my fate. It turned out it wasn't another racer; it was just a guy out for a run.

For actual life-endangering fear: I was hiking in the Sierras years ago, 40 miles from any road, and a snowstorm rolled in. I dropped my compass and the snow covered the trail. I had to beeline 30 miles back in one shot through the night. I finally found a payphone at a closed Ranger building in Yosemite and an operator sent a ranger to get me before the worst of the storm hit.

Jamie: What are your future goals? And are any of your kids runners?

John Kelly: I’d like another finish or two at Barkley, a Hardrock podium, and I still have the Appalachian Trail hanging there. I’ve spent a decade building a company and I’d like to focus a bit more on my family and running now. My oldest son is eleven and just asked about doing cross country. I don’t want to assign my kids a passion, I just want to show them the value in having one.

Jamie: Who are you running with today?

John Kelly: This is Keswick, my border collie. She’s named after the town in the Lake District where the Bob Graham Round starts. I got her as a pup on a business trip to the UK. She goes on all my runs with me.