Interview w/Nick Meraz

Jamie Roberts
Mar 9
44 min read

Jamie Roberts: You're listening to Running Buddies, brought to you by Running Scared Media, where every step has a story. I'm Jamie Roberts and this is the podcast we like to call a "jog cast". Whether it's your first 5K or your next fifty, Running Buddies finds stories that are bigger than running.

Today we have Nick Mraz on the show. He is a runner and a businessman from Southern California. His tagline is "Run Scared," which is very similar to what we've been doing over here—finding fear and something deep within to propel you on your journey. Nick, with his company Ostrich Running, is bringing positivity, enthusiasm, and that "Run Scared" philosophy to the landscape. Welcome to the show, Nick.

Nick Mraz: Yes, thank you so much for having me. You actually crushed the name—said the last name just like a natural. I'm so excited to be part of this show and this "Run Scared" philosophy.

The "Jog Cast" Setting: Mission Viejo

Jamie Roberts: We share that, right? We’ll get into what brought us together later, but first, we need to learn: where are you, man? What are you doing, where are you running, and what's going on with that run?

Nick Mraz: Let's get these rapid fire. I am in beautiful Southern California—Orange County to be exact, Mission Viejo. Physically, I'm on a bike path that leads all the way to the beach if you take it to the end.

Jamie Roberts: Oh man, that sounds terrible. (Laughs) Why am I even here in Canada? We just don't have that weather. Are you more inland like Anaheim, or down by the coast?

Nick Mraz: I'm south of Anaheim, just inland from Laguna Beach. I can run one main road all the way to Laguna. We get that nice ocean breeze and a marine layer building up on the trails. I grew up in a desert, so I appreciate every single day I get to run in this scenery.

Jamie Roberts: How long was the run today? I know you're in the middle of it.

Nick Mraz: I wanted to keep this true to a "jog cast". I had a hard threshold workout on the books: two times 20-minute threshold. With the warm-up and cool-down, I knocked out a little over 10 miles, and now we're just cruising down this path. I wanted to get the hard work done before because otherwise you would have just heard me gasping for air.

Hidden Gems of the OC Running Scene

Jamie Roberts: Can you tell us something interesting about the space you're in? Is there one spot in OC that people really need to run?

Nick Mraz: Currently, I’m looking at a paved bike path that just went under the 5 freeway. If I run the opposite direction, it takes me to a famous biker bar called Cook's Corner—like a Sons of Anarchy bar, not a triathlete bar.

If you want road running with views, Newport Beach Back Bay Harbor is incredible. But the trail community out here is really special—it’s kind of secretive but gaining popularity. The course I normally run is Black Star Canyon. It has a crazy climb; I watched elites like Jake Jackson crush it and knew if I could figure out that course, I’d have made significant improvements.

Jamie Roberts: Why do you say the trail community is secretive? Is it a "gatekept" thing?

Nick Mraz: Definitely not gatekept. It’s just that there are so many subcultures here—mountain bikers, surfers, Disney enthusiasts—that you just have to stumble upon it. Once you find it, people are welcoming and love to share knowledge. I call it secretive because we usually look to Colorado or Flagstaff as the training grounds, but this is a beautiful spot right in our backyard.

The Journey to Sobriety and Running

Jamie Roberts: Take us back to the beginning. Why did you start to run?

Nick Mraz: My story doesn't go back that far. In 2021, I picked up my first pair of running shoes and decided to run a marathon. At that point, I had recently picked up a life of sobriety. For many years, I struggled with drug and alcohol abuse as a result of PTSD from my military service.

I worked in the film industry in LA, which almost caters to that lifestyle, and nobody batted an eye. When my son was born, I knew I needed a change, but addiction doesn't just work that way. When we found out we were having a second baby—Irish twins—I knew I had to end the cycle.

I got sober and moved to Orange County. Early sobriety is hard because you can't see the progress yet; ten days feels like an eternity. I needed something to distract me and a goal that was attainable and measurable. Running was hard and I never liked it, but I knew if I did something every day that I didn't like, the rest of the day would be easier.

Jamie Roberts: How did that lead to the first marathon?

Nick Mraz: I was worried I couldn't do it. So, the weekend before the official OC Marathon, I went to Back Bay Harbor and ran my own marathon solo just to prove I could. A week later, I ran the official one and I blew up—it took five and a half hours—but I did it and never looked back.

Philosophy: Patience and Service

Jamie Roberts: How has your mental approach changed? Is there something specifically with running that channels trauma into something positive?

Nick Mraz: Running has taught me patience. Early in recovery, they say "this too shall pass," but I didn't learn patience until I started running longer distances. I'd love a 50-miler to be over in four hours, but that’s not in the cards for me.

Running also mirrors sobriety through acts of service. When you're in the "pain cave" during an ultra and feeling sorry for yourself, the best way to get out of it is to find someone else on the course who is struggling and help them. That is a perfect metaphor for sobriety and life.

Business: Ostrich Running in 2026

Jamie Roberts: How did this lead to starting Ostrich Running?

Nick Mraz: COVID shifted the film industry, and I went back to school for my MBA. My friend Jared Horton—"The Juice"—suggested I do something I'm passionate about, like running. I realized running saved my life, and I wanted to build something that supported the community.

The motto "Run Scared" is a metaphor: the fastest and furthest you'll ever run is for survival. It means putting yourself in uncomfortable situations—a distance or speed that scares you—because that’s where growth happens.

Jamie Roberts: How do you position Ostrich Running in 2026 with the rise of AI and big brand monopolies?

Nick Mraz: I want to give back to athletes. Big brands build billion-dollar organizations off the backs of athletes but often only offer them a 40% discount and a restrictive contract. I’d love to hire athletes as employees—give them a salary to run and help with social media.

I famously say, "I don't run ads, I run miles". In the age of AI and polished content, authenticity reigns supreme. People have a "spidey sense" when something is perfectly created but inauthentic. I want raw and ugly; that’s the truth of running.

The "Running Scared" Moment

Jamie Roberts: We always ask: what is your literal "Running Scared" moment? A moment of actual fear?

Nick Mraz: I’ll cater to your motto. On that Black Star Canyon trail, I was training for a hundred-miler while finishing my MBA. Because of "dad duty" and class, I would start my runs at 3:00 a.m..

There is a section with Indian artifacts that they actually do ghost hunting tours on. Every time I ran through there at 3:00 a.m., I would get a weird feeling and swear I could hear feet hitting the dirt behind me. If you look at my splits, you’ll see a very fast mile at the six-mile mark every time because I was so freaked out.

I actually want to organize a "Run Scared" race in a canyon where people in movie-style makeup jump out with chainless chainsaws at 2:00 a.m. at mile 40 just to make sure you feel alive.

Conclusion

Jamie Roberts: Nick, this has been an amazing conversation. You bring a unique insight as a runner and a visionary business owner.

Nick Mraz: Thank you for giving me a platform to go deeper into the idea of Ostrich Running. You can find us at ostrichrunning.com or on Instagram @ostrich.running. I respond to as many messages as I can—it's a small business, just me, and I love the feedback.

Jamie Roberts: Check that out, people. Thanks again, Nick.

You said

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This is the verbatim transcript of the Running Buddies podcast from March 9, 2026, featuring Nick Mraz.

Host: Jamie Roberts Guest: Nick Mraz

Jamie Roberts: You're listening to Running Buddies, brought to you by Running Scared Media, where every step has a story. I'm Jamie Roberts and this is the podcast we like to call a jog cast. Whether it's your first five K or your next fifty running buddies, find stories that are bigger than running. And we have found a great story today. We are going to have on the show Nimra's. He is a runner. He is a businessman from Southern California. I would even say, you know, encroaching on friendship with this gentleman. Um, kindred spirits. His tagline is run scared. And that's very similar to what we've been doing over here. The idea of running scared. Finding fear, finding something deep within to propel you on your running journey. So we're going to have have him on in a minute. So really, really excited to, to have a conversation. Um, so that would be very cool. What's also cool is subscribing to the podcast. It is free. Uh, that is one reason. Second reason is we have a bunch of, I think, really great stuff lined up for listeners, not just the content, but, uh, giveaways and some really cool partnerships that we're doing. So make sure you subscribe to the podcast because that is one of a few different ways to hear about new things that are happening. Another way to find out information is to go to the website, which is running Scared media.com. And yet another way to find out information is to go to Running Scared Media on Instagram. That's a really good place to find everything that we are doing. Um, please take a listen to our other podcast. We've got Soulcysters and we've got Hybrid Horizons, which is looking at all things functional fitness. So those are out there. Those are coming on the feed episodes weekly. Let's just kind of get through this and let's just get right to the episode. It's a long one. It's a good one. Let's go to the OC Orange County, have our conversation with Nick Mraz. On today's show, we're extremely thrilled to be running with Nick Mraz, a runner, a businessman who, with his company Ostrich Running, is bringing positivity, enthusiasm and a philosophy of run scared to the running landscape. Welcome to the show, Nick.

Nick Mraz: Yes. Thank you so much for having me. You actually you crushed the name. Look at that. You said the last name just like a natural. And, uh, I'm so excited to be part of this, uh, this show and, uh, this running scared philosophy.

Jamie Roberts: Yeah, man, I can't wait to get into it. Awesome, man. Well, we share that. We share that, right? Like running scared. We'll kind of get into what kind of brought us together, I think a little bit later on. But we're, we're really happy to have you and, and to learn about all the amazing things you're doing. But the one thing we need to learn first is, is where are you, man? We start with kind of like a quick hit in terms of what you're doing, where you're running, what's going on with that run. So where are you right now?

Nick Mraz: Yeah, let's get these rapid fire. I am, uh, in beautiful Southern California, Orange County, California, to be exact, mission Viejo, uh, to take it one step further physically on a bike path on this path will lead you all the way down to the beach if you take it all the way to the end.

Jamie Roberts: Oh, man, that sounds terrible. It's worse. It's it's it's like, why am I even here? You know, that could be doing something else, right? Than being in the sunshine with shorts and a shirt on. Uh, this is heaven, you know? You know, we're coming to you from Canada and, like, we just don't have that weather. So one of my favorite things is I just like, I'll just go look on a map and I'll just go look, looking. I'll just go look at where, like, nice weather is. And all the runners down in the southwest. And I looked at I looked at Orange County. So you're you're right next to LA County, but it looks like Orange County is pretty big. Are you like more kind of Anaheim or are you more down by the coast? Like, like, whereabouts are you in that area?

Nick Mraz: Yeah. So I'm south of Anaheim, just, uh, inland from Laguna Beach. If I take one main road, I could run that all the way to Laguna Beach. Um, so, you know, South Orange County always gets a little bit ten degrees since we're kind of closer to the coast. You get that nice ocean breeze when you're running the trails and you look down and you see the ocean, you get a nice, uh, marine layer, uh, building up. And it's just such great views and just, uh, I'm super spoiled, man. And I came from a desert. I grew up in a desert. So I appreciate every single day that I wake up and I get to run in, uh, this beautiful scenery, beautiful weather. It's, uh, it's amazing.

Jamie Roberts: You know, that's so, that's so important that you acknowledge that because we've talked to, you know, professional runners and snowboarders and especially just conversation I just had about, um, with one gentleman and he's like, I understand I'm not living the life of everybody, right? Like he acknowledges that and just kind of, I respect that, you know, honoring what you do, but acknowledging the fact that not everybody is, you know, a block down from Laguna Beach. But I'm wondering what, um, how long was the run today? I know it sounds like you're in the middle of it, but what were you getting after today?

Nick Mraz: Yeah. So I wanted to keep this true, right? It's a jog cast, and I knew I was going to put a run up. I was going to do this right. Um, but I had a, a long threshold workout done today or on the books today. So, uh, it was, uh, two times at twenty minutes threshold. Um, and with the warm up and cool down, I ended up knocking out a little over ten miles and now we're just cruising, we're cruising down this path, uh, which is in the opposite direction of where I ran the path earlier. So, uh, it was, uh, a hard workout. That's why I wanted to get it done before because you would have not heard me talk and it would have just been a whole lot of gasping for air because I am not an elite runner.

Jamie Roberts: Yeah. No, no, nor am I. But we like our we like our guests to be in a nice, solid zone two, just so we can hear a little bit of a little bit of breathing in the background. Sounds like you're doing something. So there's an actual jog taking place, but still you can get the answers out. But you know, you really kind of painted a picture. And I, you know, we, uh, many podcasts have gone to like, you know, the split screen video and that's cool. But we, we believe in audio, we are audio. So I really like that, that you kind of, um, you gave us a mental picture of what, You know what you're looking at and what we're thinking about, but can you tell us something really interesting about the space you're in? And then as an add on, if you're down in your area, is there one spot that you just need to run? Like I understand running along the coast and the boardwalk would be it, but is there like a great trail that if someone is down in OC that they need to, they really need to do and take their time?

Nick Mraz: Yeah, definitely. So currently I am looking at a nice bike path. I just went under the freeway, the five freeway, and uh, you know, there's a little creek with a lot of greenery on the left and this, this will take me all the way to the beach if I wanted to. And it's actually a really great paved bike path. Um, I normally don't run this direction. I normally run the opposite, which takes me up to, um, this very famous biker bar. Um, and like biker bar, like Sons of anarchy kind of biker bar, right? Not a whole bunch of triathletes at a bar. Not a San Francisco biker bar, if that makes sense. Um, you know, uh, and that one's called Cook's Corner. Um, and that'll take you up all the way through. And that's a great view too, because you can kind of run this nice little elevation on a paved path and it's just a beautiful view, um, for somebody who's here in Orange County. You got it all, to be honest. You want to be a road runner and you want to find some place with great views, but a paved course, Newport Beach, back Bay Harbor is incredible. Just a nice little course looped around. You're right there. You can see Newport Beach. You feel the cool air, uh, kind of taste the salty air as you're running, depending on what time you, uh, you come in. So that's a cool spot, but the, uh, the trail running community out here is, um, kind of secretive, but it's, it's really gaining popularity. Um, and the course that I normally run is, uh, a place called Black Star Canyon. And how it was introduced to me was I was doing a race over there and it was before Aravaipa took it over, but it's called that's No Moon. And, uh, it's a, it's a pretty crazy climb in the beginning. Um, but I was watching all these elite runners, Jake Jackson, a couple others out there just crushing this uphill. And I was just amazed at their climbing capabilities, sustaining a pace, going up a mountain. And I knew that if I could ever figure out how to run that course, I made some significant improvements on my aerobic base. Uh, my health, my, my ability to run. So that trail is right in my backyard and I can run from the bottom up to the top, through the mountains up there or like the, uh, kind of like the ridge and, uh, see the ocean on one side, the Inland Empire on the left side. And, um, I can easily get twenty two miles self-supported on that and just crush the, uh, the downhill on the way back. And it's, it's amazing. It's, uh, there's also a little section in there that has kind of like a historical site and I can't recall off the top of my head, but there is a, an Indian tribe that used to reside there. You can see remnants of, you know, where they used to prepare meals. Uh, there's a lot of erosion in the rocks where they would just make their cornmeal. And it's a very beautiful little spot hidden in there. Um, and there's also some, uh, mountain lions and it feels like it is the perfect spot to run scared for me. Literally.

Jamie Roberts: Dude, that's an incredible answer, man. I'm writing down all these notes I just want to pick up on like a couple of things. First off, the last thing you talked about, like the indigenous community there, my wife has done a lot of work. She's an educator as well. So that would be something that I'm going to just pass on to her because just out of just interest, I think she would she just want to check that out. I want to jump over to you talked about the trail community being a little bit secretive. To me. This is like a little bit of, um, like a black box. California, you think, you know, it's like Hollywood and, you know, rich and famous and it's like maybe this plastic culture, but. Or is it this chill? Is it, is it the antithesis to that? Like, is it this chill environment where everybody's kind of laid back? Like, does that, how does that manifest itself in like in the running community and the trail running community? Like you said, secretive? Is it is it like, is it like a club that you got to know someone to get in? Or is it just they, you know, it's secretive because it's small or is it is it secretive? Because. Like what? Really, how does the. I guess what I'm asking is for those that are not from California and the allure of the place, how does the running community kind of mirror just the culture in general?

Nick Mraz: Yeah. Great question. So definitely not secretive in the sense that it is, uh, gatekept. It is secretive in the sense that there's so many things you can do out here, right? If you just happen to stumble upon a trail running community, then you've like realized that, oh my gosh, there's this whole world that lives here because you have mountain bikers, you have cyclists, you have runners, swimmers, baseball players, pick up game leagues. Um, you have people who are avid enthusiasts of going to Disneyland every weekend, right? Crazy. Yeah. There's just culture subcultures everywhere, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, just a whole lot. So it's not necessarily gatekept um, like to keep it pure. It's not like localism and surfing. Where. Hey, you're not from this area. Why are you taking this wave? Uh. Kind of thing. Because there are definitely sports where I feel like that. That does happen, right? Yeah. But, um, when you kind of explore and you find. This trail running community and you and you find these, these paths that are right in your backyard, um, you start opening up the whole world of Southern California trail running and you're welcome with open arms. People are loving to share their knowledge. Loving to share different routes, different paths. I'm still, I'm pretty fresh into my trail running. We'll call it career. And this is. And I'm doing air quotes right now. Um, but, uh, I'm still finding new, new paths, new trails. Um, and I've been running it for about five years now and it's just amazing, man. I, I think it's a very cool, uh, community that's welcoming, that's all for people improving and, and challenging their mind and their body. Um, and there's just great courses out here. Um, you and the reason why I say it's secretive is because we look to the Colorado, the Flagstaff, the Arizona's right. These, these very monstrous training grounds for elites. This is such a cool recreational, beautiful spot. Um, I think Max Joseph had, um, a little segment that he did with an air of a documentary and he, he, uh, he talked about it there and he nailed it, right. It's just there and beautiful. And if you are a part of it, you can do some really cool things and challenge yourself to some really cool feats that you didn't realize were you were capable of doing because it's right here in your backyard.

Jamie Roberts: Yeah. You know, you like another thing that's it's in your backyard. My backyard. And you mentioned this too in your comments is like, this is not a groundbreaking common in any way, but when I run with people, I find running uphill is such a game changer. Is it are we not training enough on ascent training or is it is it is there not enough there? Because I run with a group, I run by myself. I sometimes run just with a with a partner, and I find that's the one, that's the one area where I'm like shedding people like crazy is this when we, when we blast in some stairs or we're going on like some repeat climbs or just a long climb, not really a question, but just more, I don't know. Do you find that is, is that just do people not like practicing that? Is that maybe what it.

Nick Mraz: Yeah. You know, there's, there's a really good approach to . there's, there's, there's two approaches, I think. And, and I'm talking about this in an ultra running sense. There's two approaches to a trail run. And, um, and an ultra marathon. Do you want to finish? Do you want to finish? Just barely under a cut off? Do you want to finish at a certain time? Do you want to try and race other people? Right? Those, those are all different approaches to an ultra marathon. And how you approach that course, uh, depends on what your goals are. All of them are great goals. They all complete the same distance. One is a little bit more time on feet than the other. The other is a little bit more VO2 max lung capacity and clearing lactic threshold. Right? Uh, lactic acid out of your muscles. So if you're looking to just finish right, which is still commendable and Respectable in my eyes. Um, there is a run walk method. And you walk those uphills and you save those legs, right? But at some point, if you decide to make the jump into being faster, being faster for yourself, achieving a certain goal, you're going to eventually have to learn how to run those uphills or jog them in a certain capacity. Right? Um, and when you start training that it unlocks a whole nother beast, uh, in your body and it is another challenge, but when you find your way to maintain a set pace up a, up a hill, up a climb, man, there is no other better feeling than being amped. And it's, oh, I found that aptness like on that trail at Black Star Canyon because for many months, almost a year, I couldn't even make it to the top. My goal was, I'm going to run this entire way from the bottom to the top, which is which is about eight miles of a steady climb. Couple couple descents in there, but then you're climbing up again. Um, so for eight miles you're steadily climbing, right? And I always just said, if I can run non-stop from the bottom to the top, I know I've improved my myself, uh, vastly. Right? And, uh, after a while, you just practice and you put in the work. A lot of times it sucks, but, uh, once you make it to the top and you start achieving your goal, it just unlocks something else that you're capable of. Um, and then downhills is a whole nother beast.

Jamie Roberts: So yeah, but yeah, no, no, where I'm at, I'm just lucky enough. I live, uh, by the Niagara Escarpment. It's like this ridge that kind of rings around the province and it's, you know, five, six hundred feet, but it's, it's sheer and there's stairs and there's trails that just go up and down and up and down. And so if you're ever in my neck of the woods, the Bruce Trail is a very famous one and it's just got great, great uphills. And I'm lucky enough I'm literally two minutes away. So I can just be training on those trails. And it's, it's really kind of steep single track. It's fun, it's good. I just find it's, it's hard for people. That's. Yeah. And you know what? We have no excuse, especially when it's in our backyard like that.

Nick Mraz: Yeah, exactly. That's why I also run that that course. I'm like, yeah, I am, I have no excuse. There's an error, maybe a race that's here. So I might as well be very good at it. It is a home course and you kind of have to defend it with your own honor, right? Yeah. Like I have no reason not to be here. Um, and then there's another great, uh, trail. There's actually two others. O'Neill Park, uh, which races does a fifty K there, which I'm running, uh, in May. And then there's another Other trail riding ranch and there's a cage races there that does. Riding ranch trail races. Um, I think there's a couple local Orange County legends who, uh. Recently, last year hosted a video of an encounter with a mountain lion on. There. And I think it made the news and stuff, but, uh, it's a beautiful, beautiful course. You get a climb, you get speed, you get. Green shade, overhang Creek running all of that right there in this like, you know, thirteen, twenty, twenty mile loop, you can easily like find enough, uh, paths just to make that run twenty miles. And it's, uh, probably in like an eight, eight square mile radius, uh, box. But it's so cool.

Jamie Roberts: Yeah. You have so many races out there. Like we've got, you know, we've got sulfur springs and we've got five peaks. It does races across the country who trail races different, you know, but we don't really have like just the number of races that are out. Like you said in those big elite training grounds, California, just the topography kind of lends itself to that. But, um, I want to kind of just shift gears a little bit and, you know, talking to someone who's knowledgeable, someone who's racing, someone who clearly loves running, like take us back to the beginning of the story. Like, why did you start to run? How did this all begin for you?

Nick Mraz: Do do do do do do do do do do do do. As we go back to the beginning. Right? Um, yeah. Um, my story in running doesn't go back that far. Um, yeah. So in twenty twenty one is when I actually picked up my first pair of running shoes and decided I was going to, um, run a certain distance and that distance was the marathon distance, right? The reason why I needed something was at that point in my life, I had, uh, recently, uh, picked up the life of sobriety. Um, for many years, I struggled with, uh, drug and alcohol abuse, uh, as a result of my PTSD from my military service. Um, and I never really addressed it, you know, uh, being younger, it's kind of like idolized at some point and especially where I was living at in Los Angeles, in the film industry, it almost caters to a lifestyle, um, that enables, you know, drug and alcohol use. And, um, nobody really bats an eye. Um, and I for many years I kind of suffered and it wasn't until my son was born that I knew like, I kind of needed a change, and I would. I'd like to say that I made the change when he was born, but unfortunately, addiction doesn't work that way, right? I, uh, for almost, uh, six more months, eight more months after he was born, I was still struggling pretty heavily. Um, and we found out we were having a second baby very soon after. So we're, we have what they're called, uh, Irish twins, right back to back and, and, uh, I was like, oh my gosh, here we go. This is insane. We are doing this right? Um, and I knew that I just, I needed to end, uh, a cycle of, uh, alcohol and drug abuse and I didn't want my, my son to see his father, like kind of how I grew up too, right? It was just a cycle. And, um, so I, I went and I, I got sober and I came to Orange County. But it almost feels like you're not making any progress when you start early on in sobriety. They always say a day at a time, you know, take it a day at a time to stack up your days. But it's hard, right? Uh, to see, you know, any progress when you feel like you've been. It's been an eternity, right? I must have not done, you know, anything in, in years and like, yeah, it's been ten days. So, you know, I needed something to distract me while I did these meetings, while I went through, um, this whole life rewire. Right. And running to me. I never liked it, to be honest. It was hard. Um, but I knew that if I could get out there and do something every day that I didn't like, the rest of the day would be easier. Um, The the meetings, the acts of service that I would do to, to change my life would, would become easier to handle. Right? And it also gave me a goal that was attainable, that I could actually measure progress. When you're starting out, this new life of sobriety forever is hard to measure, right? Because I'm still never not, uh, an alcoholic addict, right? I will always be in recovery. So it's very difficult to measure that. The end goal, right? If it's the finish line is always moving, right? Always improving. So I needed something. And at that time, I had just signed back up for school, uh, to go back to school. I used my military benefits to allow me to go back to school because I knew I was going to need to do something, especially with a kid on the way. A second kid on the way. Um, I'd kind of capped out where I was in the, in the film industry. So that was going to be at least four years. I had no end in sight for being sober. I needed something that I could train to, like a physical finish line that I could cross. And that marathon was that that, uh, actual finish line. And, um, during that time, it, it was, uh, it was a grind, man. I, I was struggling at a mile and a half. Um, and then I made those rookie mistakes of just putting too many miles on the feet way too fast. Injury. Never like trying to figure out how to get past the wall of bonking, figure out fueling. I had nobody showing me anything. I was just out there figuring this stuff all out on my own. Um, and I still had like, a lot of like, self-conscious, uh, ideas running in my head, rolling around in my head. So even before I completed my first marathon, which was the OC marathon, I was, uh, worried if if I could even do it. So the weekend before I actually ran the first official marathon, I went to the back Bay Harbor in Newport and ran my own marathon on my own, just to make sure I could do the distance. And I was like, okay, I did it. Okay, I can go ahead and do it. And a week later, I ran another marathon, which, uh, surprised, I blew up on that marathon. And, uh, it was the worst thing in my life and took me like five and a half hours to finish. But, uh, I did it, and, uh, just kind of never looked back.

Jamie Roberts: I gotta say, man, like, that's that's an amazing story. Congratulations on sobriety. It's not hard. I, I have someone close in my life that, uh, is still struggling and has never been able to. You used a great word like kind of rewire. I always say he's not been able to kind of unlock what he needs to do. Um, in order to, in order to, to move forward. Yeah. I'm wondering, you know, you really did a nice job of explaining kind of how you did it. Acts of service. I'm sure a support group around you making choices to go back to school. How has your mental approach changed not just to running, but just to life? I know, um, you know, runners in the ultra community, a lot have gone through trauma, some not, but some have. Is there something specifically with running that, um, really channels something at the core into something positive? Is it a wholesale mental change and running just ends up being the activity is really, what is it with running and your mental philosophy and approach that allows you to kind of, um, stay sober, be productive, and continue on the running journey.

Nick Mraz: Yeah. Um, so those, you know, you know, we see a lot of runners very popular to be a runner with trauma, right? Especially nowadays with social media, that seems to, seems to be what the algorithm favors, right? Yeah. Overcoming adversity, a struggle, right? So when you don't see those stories of those runners who they say that they don't come from trauma, right? Well, life is traumatic in general. Okay. We're gonna find it no matter who we are. And if you say you haven't had trauma yet, you just run because you love it. Trauma will find you at some point in your life. Okay, so we're gonna all go through something traumatic no matter what. Some. Some are just going to do it early in life. Some are going to have it self-inflicted. Some are going to have it out of their control. But we're all going to go through it, right? And what running has taught me as a person who has self-inflicted my trauma, some of it I have not. I mean, it was it was a result of my voluntary experience in the military. It just happened that way. Right. But all of this stuff has taught me something. Um, and it's patience. Patience is the biggest thing. Right? Early on in recovery, we have another saying that says this too shall pass. Right? Well, a lot of times you're like, hurry up and pass, right. Can you hurry up and pass? Uh, and I really haven't learned patience until I started going up in longer distances. Right? You can only run as fast as your body is able to run up and sustain a pace, right? Yeah. I would love to have fifty miles be over in in four hours. I would love to have one hundred miles be over in twelve hours, but that's just not in the cards for me, right? So I'm one of those people who are twenty four hours and longer, and you're gonna have to learn some patience, right? And that's what running really taught me, taught me with the business, taught me with school, taught me with my kids, which I'm still working on, by the way, uh, is patience, right? Um, yeah, uh, but I, I really, uh, let me pause as I go over past this. Yeah. So it's really taught me a whole lot about that. And hey, look, I know these people right here. Good morning. Hey. Thank you. I'll see you. Yeah. That's the beautiful thing about running a lot, right? Is when you see people that you, uh. You know. Yeah. And, uh, but it's taught me patience, man. The number one thing it has taught me is patience, uh, in life, um, that sometimes you just have to sit and lock in. And that is the best thing that I've ever learned from running is sit and lock in. And much like sobriety has taught me, um, like I mentioned before, acts of service, getting out of yourself, that is the best way to get out of the pain cave. When you're in an ultramarathon, when you're sitting there struggling and you start feeling sorry for yourself, I feel sick, I feel bad. You, you know, what you do is you, you find that person out there on the course who's struggling and you go help them out. And if that isn't a metaphor for sobriety and life, if they go hand in hand, it's crazy. And some of it you just can't even plan for the the connection between life and running. Um, it's just a beautiful thing to witness, be a part of and experience every time I get out the door. So that's really what, what it's taught me.

Jamie Roberts: Your philosophy is, is grounded and, and your patience and your patient approach is, is important. How has that led you to being a business owner, starting ostrich running? How has how has patience played an integral role in that? And are you learning to be more patient with that? I still have room to grow. Yeah. Yeah. Talk to us about about the business in, in sort of the, in the evolution of, uh, of everything you've been doing.

Nick Mraz: Yeah. So we'll start from the beginning, right? Uh, what, what started, you know, Nick to start off was running well. I didn't know what I was going to do. Covid had shifted the film industry completely. You know, hearing from my friends, it was almost as if the universe, uh, paid me back in a way. Because if I was gonna ever go back to the film industry, it was going to be a completely different landscape from when I left it. And when I left, Covid hadn hadn't happened yet. Right. Um, so I went and I got an education. I went, I learned business. I ended up going a little further, getting my MBA and, you know, I was talking with a close friend of mine who you might hear on my podcast, uh, Jared Horton. We call him the juice. Um, we, we've had a pretty core group of friends and we always look to each other for advice. Um, we, we bounce ideas off each other. And I think, uh, when I was wrapping up my MBA, I was trying to figure out what I was going to do. And my, my friend Jared told me, why don't you do something you're passionate about? Why don't you do something in running? And I, and I remember my first response to him was, I can't stand running. It's it's hurts every day, right? But I, I realized like in that response, I had actually come to love running because it had taught me so much. It had given me so much confidence, but I, I thought deeply about what my experience was like when I first got into running. And it is a place that can be very intimidating, very expensive. You don't know who to listen to, what to do, and everybody's taking your money while doing it. Right? Um, it's a, it's a very tough industry to or sport to or hobby, whatever you want to call it to, uh, take on. Um, and as I learned more about business, I learned more about how to run an organization that didn't just Fly by night, so to speak. Right? How do I build something with meaning and intent that can outlast anything else around it? And, you know, I wanted to be able to put something together that supported runners that supported the community. And I say it often to support the sport that changed my life and saved my life. How do I give back to that? Right? So it's slowly evolving as time goes on. This is like this, like living organism that is ostrich running. And, you know, to keep the lights on, I'll bring a product. Um, I try to solve a problem that I'm having because if I'm having it, it's probably other people having the same problem. And um, yeah, that's kind of where, where it started. Um, but of course, you know, the motto run scared is actually, you know, how we kind of met and, in this motto of ostrich running run scared to me was always kind of like a metaphor that the fastest you're gonna ever run is when you're running for survival, right? The furthest that you're ever going to run is when you're running for survival. Uh, if you need to run as long as you can for persistence hunting, then you, you run until you know, whatever you're chasing gives up. But, uh, out of the fear of hunger, right out of the fear of failure. And to me, running scared meant putting yourself in a situation that was scary, a distance, a speed, uh, a community of people that you, you know, you're not sure about. But if you're putting yourself in an area that you're uncomfortable, that's where growth happens. And I always wanted my people and my community who has supported the brand to run scared and run in these, uh, these areas of life that are uncomfortable because that's where the most growth happens, right? Um, and I have a lot of visions, a lot of plans for, for this brand to continue to grow and support, you know, the community that has given me so much and it's exciting to be a part of and build.

Jamie Roberts: Yeah, that's a, that's a great answer. I'm, you know, you kind of touched on a couple of things with with with running scared. Yeah, exactly. When we first started talking a little while ago, it's we kind of looked at it a little bit differently, but it was the same kind of idea, right? Like, you know, running at night, being scared, wanting to propel you to go faster, shot of dopamine, adrenaline, whatever. And we wanted to, we wanted to make some not necessarily much apparel, but just media that kind of like created those immersive experiences. But I think it sort of sits in the same in the same kind of vein. Um, you talked about kind of solving a problem. I'm wondering not only like your future goals for the company, but I'm going to kind of like sort of synthesize a few different things, right? Like with with the explosion of running with or even trail running and you just see how much, how much bigger it's getting, but also the influence of kind of AI and lots of digital technologies. Um, and almost like in some circles, like in a reversion back to it and having, just wanting like community runs and community groups and moving away from the virtual runs and all those kind of things. Like I'm wondering, how do you position ostrich running in twenty twenty six? You know, you don't have to tell us all your secrets in terms of what, what, what the plan is, but I think it's an interesting time. Um, especially when you see like, from what I see more overt, like athlete sponsorships. Um, you know, I was listening to something where, you know, there is, um, there's crowdfunding for prize money now, like at what point does a sponsor come in and just start really, you know, driving up the, the purse value, right? Because you're right, it is expensive. Like as a running company. How are you positioned moving forward in, you know, twenty twenty six and beyond?

Nick Mraz: Yeah. So, uh, amazing, amazing questions. And I've thought about this often. Um. In a perfect world, ostrich running is this organization that is generated consistent revenue. Uh, and we're a powerhouse running brand right in this industry. I met quite a few runners who fall in that position or in that, that place where it is very expensive. They are an elite level, but they have no sponsorship. They have nothing to make a living off of. Um, kind of taking it back to that Prefontaine era, right? Where, what about the athletes? Right? In a perfect world, I would love to hire athletes as my employees and give them a salary to just run and help out, right? I look at I hate to name drop. Hulka and all these these big brands, but it's clearly obvious what's happening, right? Yeah. They're building these billion dollar organizations off the backs of athletes. Um, and where are they getting, uh, payment for this? Right? Only one percent, two percent of them are really actually making a contract. And you have to where you have to run these crazy, uh, paces in order for it to happen. But there's these influencers out there will, uh, dub them the, the mid-pack runners, right? Which I, I hate doing that as well because they're still doing incredible things as well. But there's a common thing that we're seeing, right? If you are a good storyteller, you're able to get brand sponsorships and move well within this sport and this industry. They are selling shoes. They're selling product, right? But still, in comparison, these deals are crazy. I look at like some of these, uh, people I've befriended over the years, uh, you know, being in this. And I ask him, okay, so you're, you're sponsored by this company, you know, what do you get? I get a forty percent discount and I can't wear any other brand stuff. So it's, it's wild to me that they're building these billion dollar, one hundred million dollar industries off the backs of these influencers, and they're giving them a discount, right? It's just, it's crazy. And I want to be able to give back to the community, to everybody. I would love for somebody to make a living off of mine. Yeah. It won't be a a ten million dollar contract, but I'll tell you what I'll make. I'll give you an annual salary to help me with, you know, social media and go run your races when you need to because now we live in an age of digital, this digital age where a lot of these things can be done remotely, can be done, you know, separated and, uh, on, on a location for something, right? So that is the beauty of that the pandemic brought to us, right? And brought small business owners. The growth of AI has allowed me to do the job of fifteen people just myself, therefore lowering my, my cost to run the business. I, um, I famously say I don't run ads, I run miles, um, because I truly believe that there's no point to run ads right now. It's the, the whole industry has gotten filled with so much noise of UGC the moment you get somebody like, I bought this and I bought that and this I'm I'm swiping away. Right? Authenticity has lost its voice in this day of AI and UGC content that when you finally do get something authentic, it resonates and you know it's a slower growth. But if I got to run as many races and talk to as many runners out there and tell them my mission, here's my product that I believe in, go spread it to the world. Right? Yeah. It won't be a one hundred million dollar organization in a year. But you know what? It'll be something that'll be sustainable and they'll feel my authenticity that comes from the brand itself. And that is the beauty of the digital world we live in now is that authenticity reigns supreme once again. And it's so easy to, to find it. Like AI, um, adds all this stuff. You can pick it out so much easier. And I understand the AI is getting better, but there's something internally the spidey sense that something always feels off about something that has been perfectly created. And when I do, when I started my show, my podcast, I have a background of film and I could make it look like a pretty set and I could do all these things, but I got tired of seeing pretty sets. I wanted to see raw and ugly. And to me, that's part of authenticity. The mistakes, the greediness, right? That reigns supreme now. And that's where I love that, uh, AI and the digital world is going, that it becomes easier to pick out authentic people versus the inauthentic individuals.

Jamie Roberts: Yeah. That's a, that's a great answer, man. Like it's not a running podcast anymore. It's a business podcast. Yeah. We're cracking it down and laying it out for the next generation, know. You know. You know, you you brought up a lot of good points. I'm making some notes there. I think the one of the things that I find, you know, craziest is the stratification of like the sponsorships and, you know, the top one percent. You're right. You know, they're making a living, but everybody else is having to do all these things for I'm not even sure how much money I. Western states these things, they don't even have. There's no prize money. Right? But there's this, there's this, I think this cultural piece that, uh, that, you know, um, I don't want to say tribal, but it kind of like the allure of these events has these runners, these top notch athletes, right? Amazing athletes, adventure endurance athletes doing all these crazy things and, uh, you know, testing the limits for not that they need to get paid, but the amount like you should be compensated for, for great work, right? That's really, I think, uh, important. I also think to your other point, like that whole midsection, not even midsection, it's like ninety percent. It creates a lot of space for, um, you know, to create communities, right? Those subcommunities, those sub suborganizations in there where you're right, maybe it's not a one hundred million dollar company, but maybe it's something that is sustainable and, and can be, you know, a profitable endeavor. So I, in that sense, I, I completely, completely agree. You know, I, I want to just kind of add on, right? Like maybe you kind of mentioned it, but moving forward, like, where do you think, where do you think the power will lie? Maybe in a year or two? Because right now, I think, I think you're absolutely correct. Right? What some of the big companies are doing UTM, like they are kind of really just, um, creating a little bit of a monopoly here, it seems. But is it, is it going to be the fans, the sponsors, the athletes, the race directors? Like there's, it's, it's really, I think an important moment in trail running or running in general. Um, I wonder who emerges as the defining leader. Yeah. What do you. Um.

Nick Mraz: I love that question and I was so excited to get to this point. Right. Um. Because. I don't think the power will ever lie in one single individual because it's much like, well, it's much like the, uh, the experiment of government, right? Of checks and balances, right? I'm not going to say, uh, not to get into anything else, but like, you know, we, we want checks and balances because we don't want one, one, uh, one portion of this industry to have complete power, right? The people creating the products or the, the races have to deliver something of quality time will expose a money grab an inefficient product. Especially given that everything is in the public eye now. Um, two. You have to have an influencer who's authentically there for something, right? If your favorite influence runner is starts trying to sell you life insurance. Um, you're going to be like, oh, wait, what are you getting into now? Right? And you stop listening to their voice as an authority in that position. Um, and the running brands, if they, if they have, um, a product that is subpar, um, again, that is going to be exposed as well. Um, things are always in the public eye. So you kind of need this delicate ecosystem of influencer, uh, running company and race director to almost work together, right? To have this symbiotic relationship because like we talked about before, authenticity is what will reign supreme. And it is very easy to see something inauthentic. And you may not see it right away, but over time it will show its face, right?

Jamie Roberts: Yeah. That's a good that's a good answer. Like I like how it's, you know, things are seldom exist in a binary. And I think that makes is a really, really good point. I know that some of the conversations we've had, there's been some of the guests I've had on, you know, a call from more of, um, I don't say a professional, but just more like something credentials like a standard circuit where there's testing and like things that like, like you just said, right? Checks and balances that really kind of exist. Right. Um, and, and just how that is a bit of a dichotomy because it runs counter to Alone races, right? That kind of have their own thing, like the grassroots kind of kind of feel and vibe. But as it, as it becomes more of a circuit, I wonder how that, how that goes. But I think it's, I think it's, I think it's interesting that the things you touch on and how they kind of all need to work together for it to, um, to really kind of to move forward as like a whole unit.

Nick Mraz: Yeah. And influencers are honestly like important because if all I saw was videos of Hans Treuer and like, the only way you're gonna ever make it to Hoka is if you run this pace. Like I'm never running an ultramarathon. There's no way. Right? This kid is incredible, right? But these influencers, they peel the veil back and they give you a space that you can relate to, right? We a lot of us would watch Michael Jordan growing up, but we never went to go. We knew we were never going to play in the NBA. We knew we were. There's no opportunity. Right. So yeah, uh, we just didn't go try out for the NBA. But like. These influencers are making you feel like you have confidence to go out there and do something. So it's very important to have somebody who is a relatable person. And these elites and these professionals need those social media, mid-pack leaders to bring more people into this sport because that adds more revenue. Where we're falling short is on the sharing of that revenue from these big companies.

Jamie Roberts: One hundred percent. Yeah, one hundred percent. I think too, with running is, um, you tell my son he thinks he is going to be Michael Jordan, like he thinks he's going to the NBA. So you got to talk to the beauty of being young. Yes. I think when I think I think when people look at runners or look at yeah, even triathletes or cyclists, they they see someone that kind of looks like them. Um, someone who's not seven feet tall. Someone who's not. I had a friend who played pro baseball. This guy was huge. When you actually went beside him, like. Yeah, he was. And he's probably the small person in the league. Exactly. Right? And, and I think I think that's the reason why it's accessible in terms of like a, like a mental piece. I think that's why you see a lot of people getting into ultras when they're older. Yeah. It is amazing how many people that I've spoken to that like did their first ultra in their forties. Yeah, that's really different than than other sports. Yeah. You know, I, I find, you know, like, I don't know, that's, that's perhaps something that, that has to play into it. But no, it's true because I was, uh, recently running with this, uh, little sprint club, this track club, uh, bunch of young kids in there. And, uh, and I was talking to some of them and I'm like, why don't you just go take over your, you're a, a A two twenty two marathon. You're at two eighteen, you're a you're an Olympic, uh, qualifier, marathon runner. Why don't you just go destroy everybody in an ultra marathon? And it's just not exciting to them because their response to me was, I'll do that when I retire. And I was like, okay, so it is the old man sport, right? And, uh, it is where we can kind of, uh, you know, slower pace down a little bit. Um, but yeah, but then you look at these people running twelve hour marathon or one hundred miles and, uh, you know, it's just insane. Yeah. So when I looked at the Black Canyon paces, I was like, oh my God, yeah. That's nuts. Like, yeah. So anyways, not for me, it's for me to talk to these people, not to necessarily be these people. So yeah, exactly.

Jamie Roberts: Okay. It all drives, it all drives to, you know, your, your mantra is running scared. We're running scared media, you know, our our thing is a little bit different over here, but still running scared. So we always drive towards the running Sierra question. So can you share a story, an anecdote that would classify as your running scared moment? That could be a moment of fear, a moment where you were actually scared. I know I had a moment where I thought someone was chasing me down the street by a golf course that I always run by. What is your running scared moment or what has been your running scared moment?

Nick Mraz: All right, since you guys already got the philosophical answer of ostrich running, running scared. I'm not going to go that route. I'm going to cater to running Scared media's actual running scared motto, right? And it's on this Black Star Canyon trail. Um, I love horror films, I love ghosts and all these things. Like I mentioned, I grew up in, in New Mexico and is a very, uh, Navajo land, right? There's this aura about a lot that happens out there in the desert. Um, you know, weird occurrences. And I love that. I love the, uh, I love, I love that Halloween is my Christmas. Let's just put it like that. So in that canyon, black star Canyon, um, I was training for a hundred mile. And at the time, I was also in my final year of my MBA program and I had a lot of long runs scheduled. And my, my courses started when on Saturdays also, and because it was for working professionals and they were at like nine a m so if I had a four hour trail run, I needed to get done because when I got done with class, usually there was a soccer game or a baseball game or some dad duty, right? So I would start doing a lot of my runs about three in the morning in that canyon. And if you love horror and you love to be scared. Three a m is definitely that time to do it. So I was out there running, and every time I'd be out there running in that section. Like clockwork, I would go through that historical area that we discussed with the, uh, the Indian artifacts. And, um, we, I was always running in that section. This is about six miles into the run. And every single time you just get this scary, weird feeling. And I swear I can always hear people like feet hitting the dirt, following me, and I'd always look behind me and I would be so freaked out. I'm like, oh my God, let me, uh, let me hurry up and finish this section as fast as I can. So, um, if you always looked at my splits from those runs that started at three in the morning, around the six mile mark, you would see me hit a very fast split. And I'm not a fast runner. Uh, but every single time I would do it, it would. It would just crush me. It was just the scariest thing. Um, so that was definitely my, one of my running scared moments. That would always be that section of that trail run. So if you're a oh, the other thing is they do a ghost hunting, uh, night tour there on that same, that same, uh, area. And I've seen a lot of weird stuff out there in the trails at three in the morning. Um, you know, random lights, very active area. If you are a person who loves that type of, uh, topic.

Jamie Roberts: I yeah, I just love that. I recommend anybody that's a runner like to do that. There's something about running. I have similar stories myself just in our, in my neighborhood, but just confronting yourself when there's no one around and it's dark and it's just, it's literally, it's, the silence is deafening. I, I love that and we love horror. We started this a long time ago reviewing horror films, and that's what kind of led us to mixing running in horror. So we're definitely aligned in that area. But yeah, that would be that would be scary. You know, you're out. It's three a m Canyon. Like, yeah, just there's so many thoughts going through your head, right?

Nick Mraz: Yeah. I wanted to do, uh, and I may still do this, but, uh, have you ever, uh, I don't know if you're familiar with, uh, Knott's Berry Farm or Universal Studios or Six Flags. Um, the amusement parks out here. Universal you. Yeah. Universal Studios. Yes. Okay. So every Halloween, they have like a Halloween portion where they put on this like crazy, like haunted mazes all around the park and, uh, crazy movie style makeup. And it's just amazing, but like, they'll hop out and scare you in the middle of the, you know, out of a dark area. Yeah. So I wanted to do a run scared race in a canyon where I had like crazy costumes of people just jumping out with a a chainless chainsaw, just revving it in your face at two in the morning at mile forty. And just to make sure that you felt alive and call it like a run scared race. And, uh, you never know when something's around the corner to just like, jump at you at two in the morning or, you know, just before the sun comes up.

Jamie Roberts: I think you get a ton of people to do that. I think that would be fun. And it would be so fun. Yeah, exactly. Dude, this has been an amazing conversation. Uh, I love it. Thank you for for joining us. This has actually been one of our longest conversations, but just, you know, you bring a really unique insight just in terms of, uh, how you're positioned as a runner, a business owner, uh, a little bit of a visionary in terms of someone taking their brand, um, at kind of a pivotal moment in, in running and, you know, just to see where everything, everything kind of goes in, um, into the future where everything kind of, kind of. Happens. So, uh, I appreciate you.

Nick Mraz: Yeah. Thank you dude. Yeah. Thank you for giving me a platform to. Go a little deeper into the, uh, the idea of ostrich running. Um, you know, I don't find too many opportunities to get into that. And, uh, I just want to say thank you for, you know, having me on and, you know, uh, this is kind of what you get when you get another podcast host, right? You get somebody who can just talk just as long as you know you're there for that results in the longest episode, I had to make sure that I had some sort of record for running Scared Media, right? And if it goes for longest record, you know, put me up there on the podium and we'll see who can beat it.

Jamie Roberts: Yeah, we got you. Okay. So just just before we get out of here and we're going to put this in the, uh, we're going to put this in the show notes. We're going to blast this out. Um, tell us where can we go to buy running or to, to, to buy ostrich running gear? Um, what's the website? What's your social media?

Nick Mraz: So you can go to ostrich running dot com. And in there there's social media links to Instagram, Facebook, YouTube. Um, to our show, uh, the ostrich running podcast, um, on Instagram, ostrich dot running. Um, everything's on there. Um, you know, like I always mention to everybody, uh, when I do the show, I, uh, I will respond to as many messages as I can. So if anybody ever has anything to say, a question to ask, um, I'm not one to claim that I know it all, but I can give you my experience. And if you ever just want to message me, please feel free to. It is a a small business. It is me running a lot of this stuff and I love the community. I love people giving feedback. Uh, any, any questions? I'm there for anybody. So you can reach out to me on anything. Um, and just find us there. So just running comm and, uh, Instagram is, at running.

Jamie Roberts: Cool. All right people, check that out. All right Nick amazing. Thanks again. And we'll make sure to. To catch up in the future.

Nick Mraz: All right. Yes. I can't wait to do it for the next one. Thanks for having me again.

Jamie Roberts: No worries. Talk to you. Bye bye.

Nick Mraz: All right. Bye bye.