Running Buddies w/ Jacob Puzey

On today's show, we're running with Jacob Puzi, a decorated runner, world record holder, Canadian champion, coach, father, and five peaks race director. Welcome to the show, Jacob.

Jacob Puzey (03:40.407)

Thanks, Jamie. Happy to be here.

Jamie Roberts (03:42.622)

Awesome. It's like great to have you. We've been doing a little, you know, scheduling juggling, but we're here. So let's dive in. You're out for a run today. Where are you running? Where are you?

Jacob Puzey (03:54.865)

I'm, I'm right near my home in radium hot springs in British Columbia. It's interior BC. really small little hamlet or village. I'm running next to a creek called Sinclair Creek and, it's just an, an off leash dog park basically right by my house. So when I need to have a little bit of reception, and just get the dog out and. And when it's warm, just do laps around the park so that she can jump in the water and get water every time, anytime she needs. So yeah, that's what we're doing.

Jamie Roberts (04:30.808)

Nice. We have so many conversations with people that are running in the Pyrenees mountains or in the Southwest. It's actually nice to talk to someone who's in Canada, although, you know, it's interesting. Like Canada's huge. are like, you know, I'm coming from Ontario. You're on the other side. Like you're five and a half hour plane ride away. Canada's huge. But some of the, know, just the space, right. If you could kind of paint a bit of a picture because

Jacob Puzey (04:38.026)

then

Jacob Puzey (04:51.361)

Yeah. Yeah.

Jamie Roberts (04:59.232)

Some of the things you post, it's absolutely beautiful where you live. Is it close to Revelstoke? Because I know you do some work around there. Are you kind of in that area?

Jacob Puzey (05:10.954)

Yeah. I, it's not, I'm kind of in between like BAMF and Revelstoke, I guess is probably a good, good description. So I've been in between the Rockies and the Kootenays and the Selkirks and the, and the Monashies. but, man, Western Canada, all of Canada is beautiful. But, where I'm at in interior BC is like, it's high desert. Like I'm,

Jamie Roberts (05:18.338)

Okay.

Jacob Puzey (05:39.691)

I'm running by some hoodoos right now. And so it's just, it's really dry, but, there's a lot of water around here, the Sinclair Creek. I'm actually right by the headwaters of the Columbia river, which runs through rebel stoke and then runs through British Columbia and then the state of Washington, the state of Oregon out to the Pacific ocean. So yeah.

Jamie Roberts (06:01.618)

I'm curious, what's the terrain like underfoot? it soft? Like you said, it's hard. it dry? Is there lot of variation in terms of if you're on single track or if you're on big kind of like, if I'm, know, road running is road running, but if I want to get out and maybe hit a trail, maybe you can share like a well-known trail that would be really great to get out there. What am I going to experience?

Jacob Puzey (06:24.399)

honestly, like I, I, I come from more of a road and, or dirt road background. And so, there's a lot of that around here. There's a lot of, it's a very rural place. So there's a lot of dirt roads. I'm on a, it's a, I would say it's, I wouldn't call it double track, but it's a wide enough, manicured path, in this little park that's It's like five minutes from town and so I'm just doing loops there but I was running on just some beautiful mountain biking trails last night which I often run on from my house and yeah they're just on these bluffs that tower over the Columbia River which in this part of the world looks like a meandering stream. It's like a trickle and then when it gets when it starts hitting the dams and it's just a series of reservoirs it's like more than a kilometer across in some parts. Yeah, it's pretty wild.

Jamie Roberts (07:23.832)

How you. Yeah, no, it's it's yeah. My my uncle lived out in Vancouver and I took a I've only been out to Western Canada once and I went out there when I was 15 and you know, like I grew up in the mean streets of Toronto, right? Like the city, like concrete jungle. I've been a city kid my whole life and I went out there and you just you fly in and the mountains. It's like it was eye opening. Spent some time in Whistler and Blackcomb and even just gross and how close it was to. Like how close you could get into some really wild terrain was amazing. So I think actually when I think about it, you know, that's maybe it was my first little thing into like running and adventure and doing all those kinds of things. But no, it is, it is beautiful. I'm wondering, uh, you're a busy guy. How much are you getting out to run these days? You said you were running last night out for a run today. this it? I know you got the kids and is it, is it daily? it like whenever you can fit it in?

Jacob Puzey (08:19.418)

I, I try to move as often as I can. but there are days, you know, I'm, I'm in Western Canada. I'm in, I'm in BC, but I'm still nine hours from Vancouver. And so like, if I, if I need to, and I'm three plus hours from, from Calgary and six hours from Edmonton. And like you said, I'm a, I'm a five hour flight to Toronto, but, but I, it's a three hour drive to get to an airport to get me to Toronto, you know, minimum stuff. yeah.

Jamie Roberts (08:30.316)

Yeah.

Jamie Roberts (08:37.644)

Yeah.

Jamie Roberts (08:45.791)

you are really in like, isolated.

Jacob Puzey (08:49.514)

I'm 90 minutes from the closest like Home Depot or Walmart, like, or even like bank, like none of my banks are even around here. So, which is awesome. Like I, most days I, I see it's an interact with more bighorn sheep than people and that's my preference. But, I go ahead.

Jamie Roberts (09:07.746)

Well, know, sorry, no, finish up.

Jacob Puzey (09:11.72)

Yeah, so I get to interact with people at the events and then most of what I do is just behind a laptop. then, you know, I've got, my kids are going to school, so pick up and drop off and see other parents and that kind of thing. And so I was out running with a guy that, that's a friend, but it also helps me with the event out in Revelstoke. And he works for Parks Canada out here. Like I'm, I'm sandwiched between like Kootenay National Park and Banff National Park. So it's not an ugly place to live. It's just, it's a lot less expensive. and a lot less populated than like Bay of, or Vancouver. So yeah, it's a good spot given, yeah, go ahead.

Jamie Roberts (09:48.248)

It's funny. I'm curious, take, like, take me back to the beginning, you know, in terms of how you grew up in your childhood. And I would say like, I have a friend who, who grew up in a very kind of rural environment, came to the city and now is spending like their life out in Haida Gwaii. So they, they kind of wanted to take it back to their childhood, what they knew, what they, what they grew to love. What was your upbringing like? it, I think it was rural, but was it as rural as you are now or like, take us kind of back to the beginning of the story.

Jacob Puzey (10:18.058)

Yeah, I mean, where I'm now, I'm going to run, I'm going to probably run by a wood mill. So I mean, I'm in logging country, where they're, they're, they're cutting trees around here, and then they're, turning them into plywood and putting them on trains and semis and stuff. And that's, that's five minutes from my house. And, so I mean, it's a pretty forested area, but this area was and still is like a logging and a mining. area, like there's minerals. So I was, I did grow up in rural places my whole life, but it was more agriculture. was more, I was born on a farm, actually in the four corners area of the United States, southwestern United States. And then we just went wherever my dad could find work. was managing a farm there and then got into ethanol, trying to convert corn to... fuel. And then got into economic development, like through like, through peanut sales down in New Mexico. And then we ended up in in Northeastern Oregon on the Columbia River where he still manages a port on the on the Columbia River. But like their main export is wheat. And so I've just I've been in and around agriculture my whole life and So yeah, small towns, but also a big sense of community. And I've lived in bigger places. I traveled and lived, I lived in Panama City for a bit. I've lived in Calgary and I don't mind those places. Like there are certainly some conveniences to it, but I don't know. just, I I wanted my kids to have the opportunity to like just, just be outside and play outside and explore and, and not, not have to worry about staying within the confines of like the tiny little plot of land that I could put a fence around, know? And so, so my kids come down here where I'm at and sometimes they're bears and cougars and they're always sheep and deer. But like that's, that's rule number one. Like when they come over from school, it's like,

Jamie Roberts (12:31.253)

Yeah.

Jacob Puzey (12:44.776)

It's sunny outside. We're going outside until the sun goes down. Grab your backpacks, throw some snacks and a water bottle in it, and let's go down to the creek and let's swim. Let's make sure the dog gets a walk and just go. I mean, my seven-year-old son can point out bark on trees and be like, you can make medicine out of this, Dad. Or can we stay down here and build a fire? And I don't know. It's just cool that that's the way they get to grow up. And it's closer to how I grew up than...

Jamie Roberts (13:03.414)

Yeah

Jacob Puzey (13:14.312)

I mean, like I said, it wasn't as mountainous where I grew up, but I definitely grew up around a lot of wildlife and just the ability to explore where the only confines were like, this is a major highway over here and this is a major highway over here. But everything in this like five kilometer radius when you're an eight year old, it's a pretty big playground to just explore, know?

Jamie Roberts (13:27.148)

Yeah.

Jamie Roberts (13:35.478)

Yeah. It's almost like, it, I don't want to say transient because that has like kind of like a negative connotation, but it seems like you moved around a lot. I'm curious, what lessons, what did you take from that as a child that you kind of, you kind of have today and then maybe even can, you know, screw your own shoulders or resilience, was patience, family. Like, you know, I think I have the complete opposite. I was in one space the whole time with my family and I take some things from that but I had other friends that moved around a lot. You know, they'd come in for two years and then they were on their way and then I might see them a couple years later when they moved around. So is there anything you kind of pull from that period?

Jacob Puzey (14:18.12)

I mean, I do think it is, there are good people everywhere you go. And there are also, I would say, cultural idiosyncrasies everywhere you go. And I think it's important to like, see the value and see the good and learn from everyone you can. But also, I I experienced quite a bit of culture shock just moving from the Southwestern United States to the...

Jamie Roberts (14:23.649)

Yeah, of course.

Jacob Puzey (14:47.816)

to the Pacific Northwest. There were Hispanics in both places, but in New Mexico, that was Mexico before it was part of the US. so those people had been there for generations, whereas in the Pacific Northwest, it was a relatively recent phenomenon that the Hispanic population were mostly migrant workers. And they worked, even though they were vital for the economy there and the entire community.

Jamie Roberts (14:59.776)

Exactly,

Jacob Puzey (15:17.415)

depended on them being there and doing, an essential service. There was definitely still some like division and racism and, I had never experienced that because I was actually probably more of a minority in my neighborhood where I grew up in New Mexico as like the, the single Anglo family versus when I moved to Oregon, it was even though there's probably 40 to 60 % depending on the neighborhood. Hispanics in the town where my parents live. It's just, it was a different, it was usually first or second generation. it was kind of the first time I had, this isn't to call out that community, but it was the first time I'd encountered racism in my life, where people were pointing things out about other people that, just like, I had a friend, like first week of school, like asking me why I was talking to a girl on the playground. I was like, cause she's nice and she's pretty. And the guy was like, well, we don't talk to them. And I was like,

Jamie Roberts (16:00.695)

Yeah.

Jacob Puzey (16:16.23)

All right, that's cool. Less competition for me, but like, why don't we talk to them? You know, and it was, it was a, it was a tough thing to experience as like a 12 year old, you know, to realize that, but it, it also helped me with my own kids and try and help them understand that there are really incredible people of all races and ethnicities and from different backgrounds. And that's one thing that I do love about even the town that I live in, like, was spring break and, my kids had already been kind of overstimulated the first week and, and they just wanted to chill. And I was like, that's cool. Cause I got to catch up on work. And, then they did the, they did the whole like old school go outside and, go knock on a friend's door. And rather than having parents set up the play dates and, and then, and then I'd be like, Hey, who are you playing with? Are you going to see? And when they told me like they were going to play with.

Jamie Roberts (16:58.208)

Yeah.

Jamie Roberts (17:05.782)

Yeah. yeah, you're no-no.

Jacob Puzey (17:16.858)

They're friends down the street from Morocco. I mean, their mom wears a hijab, you know, like they're very different culturally than who we are. But there was like nothing in their minds that was like, we just want to go play with our friends. Like it doesn't matter what they look like or the accents or the food that they're eating. It's like, they're just our friends and they live down the street and we're bored sitting around the house, you know? So we're just going to have an adventure. Yeah.

Jamie Roberts (17:20.856)

Yeah.

Jamie Roberts (17:36.31)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there's there's a lot there. The whole the whole, you know, playdate getting your kids and you know, all that stuff is like definitely real and I I do that but it's interesting. You talk about like diversity. I'm not I'm not saying that you know, just something not really has to do with running but Growing up in Canada, I'm not saying that there isn't racism here, there isn't racist people, or there isn't, you know, areas where it's a monolith and areas where it's more diverse. But it's funny how like, you're talking about, you know, playing with someone because this is a girl or whatever, like, where we really are, especially in the Toronto area, but even more into like the rural areas, there's so much immigration that's happened in Canada, you know, since...

Jacob Puzey (18:15.814)

Absolutely.

Jamie Roberts (18:25.462)

since like, since the 30s and 40s, well, there's been different, you know, it's like cyclical, but there's just, that is something that, that is something that we kind of just grown up with. And I notice it, you know, I notice it more when I go to other places, right? Other countries where you kind of, I always say to my friends, cause I do a little bit of traveling around and I always talk about, in some spaces I go to, it feels like there are parallel worlds happening at the same time, where there's no interactions between every,

Jacob Puzey (18:30.116)

Mm-hmm.

Jacob Puzey (18:45.349)

you

Jamie Roberts (18:55.414)

with between these two parallel worlds. They just sort of coexisting, not like not integrating. And that's a foreign thing to me up here. Just it really is like, you know, just how how I've raised my friend group. I don't know, just all those things. But anyways, I digress. But it's something it's something interesting to kind of to pick out. And I want to talk about, you know, you just deciding to to live in Canada and to be here.

Jacob Puzey (19:01.765)

Yeah.

Jamie Roberts (19:25.196)

But I want to know, like, where did the running piece start for you? Cause you know, you're moving around to all these towns and you've got all these different like amazing outdoor spaces where you can, that you can kind of investigate and explore. When did running come in? How did you find that? Or how did it find you?

Jacob Puzey (19:42.281)

Yeah, I mean, kind of how I mentioned as a kid, we lived in a small town and we had a similar rule that my mom had a similar rule. It was a big family and it was the desert and it would get dirty and we would get dirty. so like, usually my kids want to come inside. It's like, you got to take a bath before you can come inside and then you're inside for the rest of the day. So we're going to go out and play hard and get dirty and then you're... You're going to wash public school off of you when you get in here and then you're also going to wash all the dirt and grime and everything else. So that's, it wasn't formal. was very informal. was just, I just ran around a lot on, as a kid, I was either on my little BMX bike or on a skateboard or roller skates or roller blades or just running around. And so I did that my whole life.

Jamie Roberts (20:12.941)

yeah.

Jacob Puzey (20:38.517)

I mean, caught myself. My son said he wanted to run back from the creek barefoot the other day. And I was like, no, at put your tracks on your feet are going to get dirty. And I was like, dude, that was me like my whole childhood. What am I doing? Yeah. And so, yeah, I ran around a lot. I loved basketball. I don't know how or why, but like I think I bought a VHS called the history of the NBA at Kmart as a kid. It's like five bucks. And I like had that thing memorized.

Jamie Roberts (20:45.816)

Yeah, exactly.

Jacob Puzey (21:06.501)

And I was just obsessed with basketball and just wanted to be a really good basketball player, but I was very short and very skinny. And so best I ever was, like fifth or sixth man on a team. And, and I figured the only way that I make the high school team as if I just had better endurance and stamina. And so I went out for cross country and in middle school and then in high school and It wasn't something that came naturally to me. I, it took me the entire middle school season of practicing every single day after school to, finally be able to complete the, the 3k cross country race without stopping and walking. And so like, it wasn't like I was a natural or anything like that. I knew it was, some metronomic pacing already built in or something. it was actually very much sprint, die, catch your breath, die, catch your breath.

Jamie Roberts (21:57.623)

Yeah.

Jacob Puzey (22:04.035)

Uh, so it more of a part, which was how I used to race. Um, I, but I don't know, somehow over time, uh, I just kind of fell in love with the consistency of it. And, uh, and I ran in the mornings before school and high school, um, during basketball season. So I had basketball practice after school that would just run during the winter with one of my friends who was on the wrestling team. And neither of us was, we were like the number 13 and 14 on the JV. Junior varsity, cross country. He says, we were like these elite athletes. We were like, we just don't want to suck when track season starts. so we went and we just ran every morning at 5 a.m. in the dark. And then he'd go to school and wrestle after school. And I'd go to school and play basketball after school. And then track season came around and like a lot of my friends who I ran cross country with didn't run during the winter or play basketball. And then all of a sudden I was like, I was like 10 spots ahead by the end of track season. And it was like, How did that happen? I mean, puberty probably played a little bit of role, but I think the biggest thing was I just got better because I didn't get slower. And then I hit build on the base that I just kind of continued doing. And by the next cross-country season, I was the top guy on a really bad team, but it was sort of like, oh, shit, this is kind of fun. it was just a fun way to experience sport and also, unlike basketball where the outcome often depended on factors outside myself, like teammates, refs, coaches, other team, whatever. was like with running, was like, it all, it all fell to me. Like I, I was fully responsible for, for the training I put in there. I couldn't blame it on anyone. I couldn't blame it on my coach for putting me in or taking me out or anything. It was like, it all fell to me. And I just really loved that, that personal accountability that came with running and Yeah, it still took me probably like two decades of running to kind of fully appreciate what it was for me. yeah, it was something that took several years for me to even begin to think that I might actually be kind of good at it or have the potential to be good.

Jamie Roberts (24:20.184)

You said something really interesting answer and it's it's it's a great answer. But you talked about like really quickly. You just went over, you know, in middle school at 5 a.m. wake ups and I'm thinking 5 a.m. wake ups middle school like I'm a teacher, right? So I've I taught grade A for 10 years. I know what middle schoolers are like and to have that kind of discipline that intrinsic motivation. Is that something you got?

Jacob Puzey (24:40.333)

Yes.

Jamie Roberts (24:46.968)

Has that always been there for you, Jacob? Is that something you got from your parents? Is that something that's grown over time? Because I know you talked about, you know, having some issues at school and then becoming a model student. Did this all kind of coalesce? I mean, isn't that discipline piece that because that's something that we're constantly trying to unlock in our students and even in my own kids.

Jacob Puzey (25:00.119)

Yeah.

Jacob Puzey (25:05.474)

Yeah, I mean, I think today's my mom's birthday and it's also Earth Day. So whenever this airs, it's my mom's birthday. I would say both of my parents are very disciplined people and they definitely try to raise us with, I would say impossible standards most of the time, but they had very high standards for us in terms of like how we were expected to behave privately and publicly. We had been waking up early because my dad worked on farms or ethanol plants or whatever else he was doing. Or he had to travel for work a lot. He was up early. My mom was a graphic artist and so she would often work at night after we'd all go to bed. They're very different sleep cycles, but they're both very intense people. And we would actually wake up early to read the Bible as a family, like from the time I was a little kid. Very strict. so it was also just sort of like, I was already going to be up anyway. And it kind of gave me an excuse to sneak out of a Bible study in the mornings. It was like, all right, cool. I'll read my verse and then I'm out and I'm going to go for a run. I was able to do that. But it also does come with the community. Like there is something I think very unique about the law of the harvest and just there is a lot of belief that people put into planting a seed and nourishing a seed and seeing it come to fruition, you know, like, and so there, that's definitely something that has been ingrained in me from the time I was a very young kid. But it wasn't just me. Like my teammate was two years older than me and he kind of took me under his wing and he was a really good wrestler. And so in a lot of ways, I feel like our cross country team in high school didn't get good until we started incorporating some of the discipline that the wrestling team had. Cause yeah, we had a really good wrestling program and it, mean, world class, like both wrestlers, like world champion rodeo champions, like steer wrestlers. It's like, cool. We're going to, we're going to wrestle people during the

Jamie Roberts (27:30.839)

really?

Jacob Puzey (27:35.841)

but then during the summer we're gonna get on the rodeo circuit and wrestle, wrestle steers. So I don't know. I mean, it's about as, as redneck as you can come where I grew up, but also very, very disciplined and very proud of that discipline. So.

Jamie Roberts (27:49.728)

Of I'm wondering, is faith still central in your life now? Is that something that is part of your family and what you're transferring to your children or have you gotten away from that?

Jacob Puzey (27:59.297)

we, don't, I don't practice like a, an organized religion per se. Like I, I still have like verses of scripture from multiple religions that are like ingrained in my heart and in my mind and still hear and hum the hymns that I grew up with as a kid. I, think, I, I don't judge anyone for any of their choices, but I think in a lot of ways organized religion is responsible for a lot of the conflict in the world. And so I try to encourage my kids to actually practice what those books, like the principles of those, whether they're Western religions or Eastern religions or whatever, or indigenous traditions. Like that's where I've found my greatest solace and my greatest source of connection to the earth and to my fellow man. And so that's what I try to do with my kids is.

Jamie Roberts (28:32.055)

Yeah.

Jacob Puzey (28:59.219)

teach them to love one another and teach them to love the earth and be good stewards of it.

Jamie Roberts (29:06.776)

Speaking of the earth, I'm curious in this whole story, when does the migration to Canada happen? And how does that all come to fruition? Was that a trip up there where you fell in love with the country? How does that happen? Because it sounds like you saw a lot of beautiful parts of the United States and you curated a lot of values and great memories. How does that story take us to Canada?

Jacob Puzey (29:35.785)

Yeah, good question. I was invited up to Canada to run a race in Canmore, Alberta, actually. And it was as a result of running well at a big race in the US. So the race director invited me up and I'd never been beyond the border. I think I'd run a Ragnar relay that started on the the border, the Canada, Canada, U S border. and then ran like through the state of Washington and stuff, I hadn't actually been in Canada. And so I came up and just fell in love and, honestly just kept coming back and I was at a transition point in my life. I was going through a divorce. I was going, I was trying to figure out how to, how to take my two master's degrees in liberal arts and actually like, you know, provide a viable living for my kids. At the time it looked like I was just going to continue to be like the sole provider and have sole custody. That's where the discussions were at that time. And so I was like, okay, I gotta find a way to do this. And I was living in a mountain town at the time, finishing up my grad school in linguistic anthropology. And so was like, unless I stay an academe This isn't a viable path. And at the time I was, I was coaching online and I was, I was making more money than most of my professors were as an online running coach while I was working as their grad assistant and teaching undergrad classes. And so I loved the subject matter, but again, I needed to find a way to provide for my family. And so I just went to...

Jamie Roberts (31:05.623)

Mmm, yeah.

Jacob Puzey (31:33.727)

coaching online full time and yeah, just went from there. Just ended up moving here and putting down roots and trying to create a safe and stable home for my kids. And then, yeah, go ahead.

Jamie Roberts (31:54.692)

Yeah, I'm just curious, like you said, right? You're trying to find a viable option to provide for your family, but I can see you're someone who's disciplined, motivated, and the coaching was working out at that point. Does that take us to 2016 and the treadmill world record? And even beyond that, Jacob, like diving into running as more of like your core, your core piece as a, as a person, like you're going to do it. You're going to get very good at it. You're going to monetize it. Like, it becomes everything that you're doing is, is, is that kind of Canada and then, the coaching. And then we come into the, the world record.

Jacob Puzey (32:43.582)

Yeah, exactly. There were certainly advantages. I could see the way that politics were shifting. before I had gone back to grad school, was working as an educator, secondary education mostly, middle and high school. It was when a lot of really, what at the time seemed regressive, and still are, but regressive and just...

Jamie Roberts (33:01.538)

Okay.

Jacob Puzey (33:12.766)

draconian immigration laws were getting passed and I was primarily teaching ESL or language arts and social studies in Spanish to second language learners and in my same town that I grew up in in Oregon. One of the main reasons I got, I did that was I was passionate about my community, but I also needed healthcare for my kids and for my wife at the time. And in the US, with a bachelor's degree in international cultural studies. There's not a whole lot that you can do and get like platinum healthcare and that's what I needed. And so there were just a lot of health issues that I couldn't pay for out of pocket. so anyway, that led to eventually like, hey, when I went back to grad school, it like, okay, it looks like a lot of the health scares are gone. And so I can go back to grad school and maybe take a little riskier approach and not have platinum healthcare. it, you know, there, there were some, there were some pluses, but yeah, politically things were not going the way I wanted and they, it didn't feel like a safe place for my kids to be. my two older kids are Latino and, that wasn't, didn't feel safe for me or for them. And, I wanted to get out. and, yeah, it, that led me to Canada and it Well, not just for the health care. It actually felt like I was cheating because when I went and took the English proficiency exam to like to immigrate here, it was like, dude, I used to teach people how to do this. And I'm in there with a bunch of no, I mean, it was really it felt like the deck was stacked against them. It's like, this isn't even fair. Like, I know the exact questions. I know the I know the the canned responses they're looking for. know I know the conjugations that they're looking for. And then I've got, you know, probably very educated people. But

Jamie Roberts (34:52.044)

Yeah. Yeah.

Jacob Puzey (35:10.461)

where they're coming from Syria and Sudan and I'm in line with them and I was like, man, this isn't even fair. But I'm lucky and I got in and I'm really grateful that I'm able to do life here and that my kids have good healthcare. Thank you. I'm happy to pay my taxes. Yeah.

Jamie Roberts (35:25.624)

We're happy to have you, you know, it's great. Yeah, of course. Well, that you know what, then I'm glad you happy to do that and like doing it because for anybody listening out there, we have high taxes here and there's no way to get around it. But you know what, just on a side note, I'm always, you know, and even just with running scared, right? Like, you know, we have people in the organization down in down in the States. In fact, most of the team is down there.

Jacob Puzey (35:35.963)

Okay.

Jamie Roberts (35:55.522)

And I'm always amazed by when I, when I talked to Americans and they, tell me, the healthcare up in Canada is not good. I, and I just, I've never had a problem my entire life and I've had broken bones and I had to go into the hospital for anything. When we're sick, we just go and that's kind of it. I don't, I don't know any other way to say it. You know, sometimes you may need to wait a little bit, but this is just from like, you know, 46 year old guy, with two kids living in Canada. It's.

Jacob Puzey (36:12.55)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jacob Puzey (36:24.987)

Yeah.

Jamie Roberts (36:25.46)

it's great. don't know what to say. You know, but we pay for it through our taxes, which are high. So that is that is something but anyway, yeah. So what I'm just curious, what year was that?

Jacob Puzey (36:33.808)

Yep, for sure.

Jacob Puzey (36:38.844)

I moved up in 2015. So honestly, right before the, without getting too political, right before the first, Trump, regime and, yeah, that was a scary time for my family. And, I, it's still a scary time for my family. So yeah.

Jamie Roberts (36:41.816)

2015.

Jamie Roberts (36:47.532)

Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Jamie Roberts (36:57.752)

Yeah. Well, I'm, we're glad you're here. so 2015, so 2016, uh, we got the world record and then you've got the amazing performance at, at Boston, you know, the first Canadian with an, a really fantastic time. And you've talked about, know, just to kind of take it to running for a minute, you've talked about, uh, races that can kind of get you into a groove, into like a, kind of like a steady roll. and that was like the treadmill world record and then Boston, like, you always been kind of more predisposed or, or prefer kind of road racing rather than trail or has it kind of, has it changed throughout the years where you have more of a preference for other ones? And then also is it conducive in trail running? I've done a little bit, a fair amount, you know, to get into those, to get into those grooves. when you're going, you know, you, max elevations and then you're going downhill and then you're going through, you know, different kinds of terrain. I'm just curious, maybe where you feel most comfortable in the running space, what you like, what you prefer the most.

Jacob Puzey (38:05.754)

Yeah, I mean, I definitely feel like I'm genetically predisposed and I would say environmentally predisposed to like just feel more comfortable on slightly rolling or flat terrain. And that's mostly just because that's what most of where I've grown up has been. I honestly thought that by moving to the mountains, I'd somehow just my lungs would expand and my capacity to climb would increase. And I think the only thing that's really helped is learning that it's okay to use hiking poles, but I'm still not a good climber at all. despite learning what I was studying exercise science in university and being one of my professors lab rats, I apparently have really good numbers in terms of VO2 max and lactate threshold. But at the same time, actually, unlike a lot of people, the buffering really...

Jamie Roberts (38:38.177)

Yeah

Jacob Puzey (39:05.004)

is not existent for me. It's like if I spike above my VO2 max, it's game over. Like I, my body doesn't recover metabolically. My heart rate just doesn't ever come back and, and I'll go from feeling amazing to just really blowing up. And so it's actually informed a lot of like my nutrition, whether or not I should use caffeine or when I use it. but also whether or not to, to hike a hill or, or surge a hill or or go above my lactate threshold at certain points in the race. so it's kind of, like I said, it sort of direct me toward runnable terrain. the, sounds ridiculous, but the 50 miles on the treadmill might've been like the easiest run I've ever run in my life because it was just like, and I know that sounds, I hope that doesn't sound arrogant, but it was just like, that was just like, I was right in my wheelhouse.

Jamie Roberts (39:42.326)

Yeah.

Jamie Roberts (39:53.401)

No. No.

Jacob Puzey (40:00.086)

and everything was clicking and I didn't have to think about anything other than just like just put one foot right on the other and get it done. And that's just kind of how I grew up was